Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/01/1998 10:05 AM Senate FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 263 (TRA) "An Act relating to secondary roads; and providing for an effective date." Co-Chair Sharp noted two proposed amendments to the Transportation Committee version that the committee had not yet acted on. Senator Torgerson moved for adoption of Amendment #1. He started by speaking to the bill, which would create a new category, called Secondary Roads. Then the secondary roads across the state would be in competition with each other for ranking, he added. In his opinion, the state currently wasn't upgrading or paving any of them because they came under the Community Transportation Program and they don't rank high enough to ever get taken care of. What SB 263 would do, he continued, was set up the additional category. Amendment #1 would allow the Legislature to appropriate up to $20 million federal funds into this category, he concluded. Senator Parnell asked if Senator Torgerson was trying to establish a level of funding. Was he trying to set a level of "up to" $20 million, or did he want "$20 million or nothing", Senator Parnell wondered. Senator Torgerson understood the point with regard to possible future appropriations that could be smaller. He responded that currently the Administration has the $220 million federal funds broken down into three categories. The intent of the amendment was to set up a fourth category and assign the $20 million into that category. To answer the question if it was all or nothing, he said he'd be happy with a lesser appropriation so long as the funds went to the secondary roads. He stressed that he would also like to see the full $20 million go to the program. Co-Chair Sharp noted that the $20 million of the current ICETEA appropriation would amount to less than ten-percent of the total allocation. There was some discussion agreeing to this observation. Senator Adams asked what affect this would have with other funding such as the National Highway System or the CTP. Senator Torgerson replied that if there were no other appropriation to increase the amount of ICETEA, this could have the affect of ratcheting back those other programs if the full $20 million was put into this program. He noted that under the current ICETEA the State Of Alaska was a winner and would have enough funds to cover this allocation without reducing the other programs. Senator Parnell still struggled with the language. He wanted to understand if Senator Torgerson was trying to not straightjacket the Legislature into making a choice between $20 million and nothing. He suggested the amendment be changed to insert the words "or less" after "$20 million". Would that still meet the intent, he asked. Senator Torgerson pointed out that the other programs were not followed by "or less". If was all subject to appropriations, but he didn't want the impression to be if the Legislature didn't appropriate $20 million, there would be nothing, he stressed. He said he would be happy to be receiving some higher degree of priority for paving secondary roads by the Department of Transportation. He also noted that this bill would sunset in five years, so it would not continue forever. Senator Parnell asked if the Legislature appropriated $20 million, what would be the required General Fund match. Senator Torgerson estimated the match to be roughly 10%, or about $2 million. Senator Adams maintained his objection, and spoke to that objection. He stressed that he still didn't know what would be the impact on the three existing programs. He didn't know what the impact would be on the urban and rural communities. Senator Donley asked how this would affect secondary municipal roads that were already paved, but in poor conditions. He referred to state-owned roads in Anchorage. Senator Torgerson told him the CS adopted in the Senate Transportation Committee changed the description from exclusively gravel roads to include asphaultic roads. Senator Donley asked how that would apply to Abbott Road in his district. Senator Torgerson guessed Abbott Road would not be eligible under this project. There was further discussion on the condition of Abbott road and other unimproved gravel roads. Senator Donley said the State could turn that road over to the City of Anchorage, but that the city didn't want it because it was in such poor condition. Senator Torgerson stated that his intent with this bill was to take care of the roads that hadn't received any attention. He spoke of an allocation of around $80 million that was in the CTP. He said there was another amendment that would come up later that would take care of some of Senator Donley's concerns. Co-Chair Sharp asked if the scope of Senator Donley's favorite topic was AMATS. Did that cover secondary roads, he wondered? Senator Donley discussed the state-owned roads being turned over to the municipality, who didn't want them due to their poor condition. Senator Torgerson speculated that the problem was the current ranking system. He referred to Department of Transportation and Public Facilities trips to Circle Hot Springs where they set up the ranking system. He said it was frustrating. Senator Torgerson said he did not have an objection to changing his amendment to put a higher ranking on roads to be transferred to local governments. Co-Chair Sharp asked for a roll call taken on Amendment #1. The count was 4-1 (Senator Adams nay.) Co-Chair Sharp ordered Amendment #1 adopted. Senator Donley spoke to Amendment #2. He said Section 1 of the amendment would put into statute a process by which the department currently developed the STIP. This didn't make any change he said just lay out what they actually used now and what categories they used. Section B would also further identify that. Section C would set out a provision in determining the priority for the STIP, that at least 40% of the ranking would be based on the volume of use on the road. He reminded the committee how during the interim, they reviewed how DOT&PF set their priority when they developed the STIP. Currently, the volume of use is only used for the NHP in urban roads, not for rural roads. In his opinion, this was very discriminatory. Section D of the amendment would require at that least 40% of the funds would be going into the rural and urban road sub-category. The remaining could be allocated at the department's discretion. Senator Adams wanted to know if this amendment would follow along with the federal guidelines for acceptance of federal funds. Senator Donley responded that, for the first time, it would set out everything that is done now into statute. It would then add additional criteria, which he said was not listed in the federal requirements. He pointed out that all STIP projects were re-submitted to the federal government for approval before work was begun. Senator Adams asked if Senator Donley thought this could jeopardize receipt of federal funds, which Senator Donley responded that he didn't think would. Co-Chair Sharp asked what was the current description of the CTP category, and if the amendment would change that. Senator Donley replied that it would have the exact same description, only the subcategories would change. Co-Chair Sharp clarified that Sections C And D would give guidelines to the department on how to rank projects and determine allocation procedures based on the amount of money allocated to the total CTP category. Senator Donley affirmed that. Senator Torgerson moved to amend Amendment #2. He read his amendment into the record. "Page 2 Line 17 New Subsection E, would read, The department shall give priority to upgrading unimproved or hot asphaltic roads if the department receives a request for the transfer of that road or a portion of that road to a municipality under this section." He said that basically the language to the main body of the bill on Page 1 Line 14 he word-smithed to add "hot asphaultic." Senator Parnell worried that the language "municipalities" was too limiting. He wanted to know if that would leave out any local governments. Senator Torgerson responded that he felt the term was all encompassing and the only entity that could be left out might be an unorganized government wanting to take over a road. There was no objection to the Amendment to Amendment #2 and Co-Chair Sharp ordered it adopted. Amended Amendment #2 was now on the table. There was no objection and it was adopted. There was discussion on the version of the fiscal note, and if it applied to the amended bill. Senator Torgerson moved Senate Finance Committee Substitute for SB 234, as amended out of committee with accompanying fiscal notes and individual recommendations. There was no objection and Co-Chair Sharp so ordered.
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