Legislature(1997 - 1998)

04/01/1998 10:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 263 (TRA)                                               
"An Act relating to secondary roads; and providing for                         
an effective date."                                                            
                                                                               
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp noted two proposed amendments to the                            
Transportation Committee version that the committee had not                    
yet acted on.                                                                  
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson moved for adoption of Amendment #1.  He                      
started by speaking to the bill, which would create a new                      
category, called Secondary Roads.  Then the secondary roads                    
across the state would be in competition with each other for                   
ranking, he added.  In his opinion, the state currently                        
wasn't upgrading or paving any of them because they came                       
under the Community Transportation Program and they don't                      
rank high enough to ever get taken care of.  What SB 263                       
would do, he continued, was set up the additional category.                    
Amendment #1 would allow the Legislature to appropriate up                     
to $20 million federal funds into this category, he                            
concluded.                                                                     
                                                                               
Senator Parnell asked if Senator Torgerson was trying to                       
establish a level of funding.  Was he trying to set a level                    
of "up to" $20 million, or did he want "$20 million or                         
nothing", Senator Parnell wondered.  Senator Torgerson                         
understood the point with regard to possible future                            
appropriations that could be smaller.  He responded that                       
currently the Administration has the $220 million federal                      
funds broken down into three categories.  The intent of the                    
amendment was to set up a fourth category and assign the $20                   
million into that category.  To answer the question if it                      
was all or nothing, he said he'd be happy with a lesser                        
appropriation so long as the funds went to the secondary                       
roads.  He stressed that he would also like to see the full                    
$20 million go to the program.                                                 
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp noted that the $20 million of the current                       
ICETEA appropriation would amount to less than ten-percent                     
of the total allocation.  There was some discussion agreeing                   
to this observation.                                                           
                                                                               
Senator Adams asked what affect this would have with other                     
funding such as the National Highway System or the CTP.                        
Senator Torgerson replied that if there were no other                          
appropriation to increase the amount of ICETEA, this could                     
have the affect of ratcheting back those other programs if                     
the full $20 million was put into this program.  He noted                      
that under the current ICETEA the State Of Alaska was a                        
winner and would have enough funds to cover this allocation                    
without reducing the other programs.                                           
                                                                               
Senator Parnell still struggled with the language.  He                         
wanted to understand if Senator Torgerson was trying to not                    
straightjacket the Legislature into making a choice between                    
$20 million and nothing.  He suggested the amendment be                        
changed to insert the words "or less" after "$20 million".                     
Would that still meet the intent, he asked.  Senator                           
Torgerson pointed out that the other programs were not                         
followed by "or less".  If was all subject to                                  
appropriations, but he didn't want the impression to be if                     
the Legislature didn't appropriate $20 million, there would                    
be nothing, he stressed.  He said he would be happy to be                      
receiving some higher degree of priority for paving                            
secondary roads by the Department of Transportation.  He                       
also noted that this bill would sunset in five years, so it                    
would not continue forever.                                                    
                                                                               
Senator Parnell asked if the Legislature appropriated $20                      
million, what would be the required General Fund match.                        
Senator Torgerson estimated the match to be roughly 10%, or                    
about $2 million.                                                              
                                                                               
Senator Adams maintained his objection, and spoke to that                      
objection.  He stressed that he still didn't know what would                   
be the impact on the three existing programs.  He didn't                       
know what the impact would be on the urban and rural                           
communities.                                                                   
                                                                               
Senator Donley asked how this would affect secondary                           
municipal roads that were already paved, but in poor                           
conditions.  He referred to state-owned roads in Anchorage.                    
Senator Torgerson told him the CS adopted in the Senate                        
Transportation Committee changed the description from                          
exclusively gravel roads to include asphaultic roads.                          
Senator Donley asked how that would apply to Abbott Road in                    
his district.  Senator Torgerson guessed Abbott Road would                     
not be eligible under this project.  There was further                         
discussion on the condition of Abbott road and other                           
unimproved gravel roads.  Senator Donley said the State                        
could turn that road over to the City of Anchorage, but that                   
the city didn't want it because it was in such poor                            
condition.                                                                     
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson stated that his intent with this bill was                    
to take care of the roads that hadn't received any                             
attention.  He spoke of an allocation of around $80 million                    
that was in the CTP.  He said there was another amendment                      
that would come up later that would take care of some of                       
Senator Donley's concerns.                                                     
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp asked if the scope of Senator Donley's                          
favorite topic was AMATS.  Did that cover secondary roads,                     
he wondered?  Senator Donley discussed the state-owned roads                   
being turned over to the municipality, who didn't want them                    
due to their poor condition.  Senator Torgerson speculated                     
that the problem was the current ranking system.  He                           
referred to Department of Transportation and Public                            
Facilities trips to Circle Hot Springs where they set up the                   
ranking system.  He said it was frustrating.                                   
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson said he did not have an objection to                         
changing his amendment to put a higher ranking on roads to                     
be transferred to local governments.                                           
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp asked for a roll call taken on Amendment #1.                    
The count was 4-1 (Senator Adams nay.)  Co-Chair Sharp                         
ordered Amendment #1 adopted.                                                  
                                                                               
Senator Donley spoke to Amendment #2.  He said Section 1 of                    
the amendment would put into statute a process by which the                    
department currently developed the STIP.  This didn't make                     
any change he said just lay out what they actually used now                    
and what categories they used.  Section B would also further                   
identify that.  Section C would set out a provision in                         
determining the priority for the STIP, that at least 40% of                    
the ranking would be based on the volume of use on the road.                   
He reminded the committee how during the interim, they                         
reviewed how DOT&PF set their priority when they developed                     
the STIP.  Currently, the volume of use is only used for the                   
NHP in urban roads, not for rural roads.  In his opinion,                      
this was very discriminatory.  Section D of the amendment                      
would require at that least 40% of the funds would be going                    
into the rural and urban road sub-category.  The remaining                     
could be allocated at the department's discretion.                             
                                                                               
Senator Adams wanted to know if this amendment would follow                    
along with the federal guidelines for acceptance of federal                    
funds.  Senator Donley responded that, for the first time,                     
it would set out everything that is done now into statute.                     
It would then add additional criteria, which he said was not                   
listed in the federal requirements.  He pointed out that all                   
STIP projects were re-submitted to the federal government                      
for approval before work was begun.  Senator Adams asked if                    
Senator Donley thought this could jeopardize receipt of                        
federal funds, which Senator Donley responded that he didn't                   
think would.                                                                   
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp asked what was the current description of the                   
CTP category, and if the amendment would change that.                          
Senator Donley replied that it would have the exact same                       
description, only the subcategories would change.                              
                                                                               
Co-Chair Sharp clarified that Sections C And D would give                      
guidelines to the department on how to rank projects and                       
determine allocation procedures based on the amount of money                   
allocated to the total CTP category.  Senator Donley                           
affirmed that.                                                                 
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson moved to amend Amendment #2.  He read his                    
amendment into the record.  "Page 2 Line 17 New Subsection                     
E, would read, The department shall give priority to                           
upgrading unimproved or hot asphaltic roads if the                             
department receives a request for the transfer of that road                    
or a portion of that road to a municipality under this                         
section."  He said that basically the language to the main                     
body of the bill on Page 1 Line 14 he word-smithed to add                      
"hot asphaultic."                                                              
                                                                               
Senator Parnell worried that the language "municipalities"                     
was too limiting.  He wanted to know if that would leave out                   
any local governments.  Senator Torgerson responded that he                    
felt the term was all encompassing and the only entity that                    
could be left out might be an unorganized government wanting                   
to take over a road.                                                           
                                                                               
There was no objection to the Amendment to Amendment #2 and                    
Co-Chair Sharp ordered it adopted.                                             
                                                                               
Amended Amendment #2 was now on the table.  There was no                       
objection and it was adopted.                                                  
                                                                               
There was discussion on the version of the fiscal note, and                    
if it applied to the amended bill.                                             
                                                                               
Senator Torgerson moved Senate Finance Committee Substitute                    
for SB 234, as amended out of committee with accompanying                      
fiscal notes and individual recommendations.  There was no                     
objection and Co-Chair Sharp so ordered.                                       
                                                                               

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